What would you do?

[Cathy Coggins]

So, I have this client. She buys needlework from me and framing. She cranks out serious needlework, and is addicted to my framing. She lives almost 2 hours away, and often thinks I should appreciate that loyalty enough to give her a driving discount, seriously.
She also has some expensive taste, but accuses me of trying to rip her off.

I haven't seen her for over a year, she has often complained about framing prices so much that she should stop stitching. She stitches like 5 hours a day and is NOT the size of Jabba the Hut. Well she called me a few weeks ago because she had a new piece that needed framing. And confessed to trying a framer closer to her, her neighbors idea apparently. Well she doesn't like his work, hates the choices he persuaded her into and loves his prices. Interesting.

She gave me this new piece, and another and wants me to reframe his work.

Here's the point of this rambling, I love needlework, and avid stitcher myself. And have an insane devotion to what I see as tomorrows treasure. She picked out a huge LJ Chateau frame, a double raw silk mats and spacers...and clear glass. CLEAR GLASS!!!!! Her way of saving $$$. That hurts my SOUL.
I am tempted to spring for it myself to save and protect this EPIC piece. It is almost the amount of work Waterhouse himself put into the piece. Tell me I am crazy?

BTW, I have delivered to her GORGEOUS home for an install, and she drives a new Cadillac every year...so does hubby. Somebody slap me if I need to be.

 

[Les Martin. MCPF]

She is taking advantage of you and you are letting her get to you. If she doesn't care about her work by protesting it she doesn't care if you stay in business. Your work is worth the time and expense. Riding in a new Caddy shouldn't be that much of a burden. I use "PMO" charges when I have to listen to unnecessary complaining and when ever some one tries to take advantage of my business, because they are trying to take money from my family they don't deserve. PMO = P _ _ _ Me Off fee = as much as you want$$$$$. Looks great on the computer with just letters

 

[Gregory K. Norris CPF]

I charge enough for regular glass that it more than covers my cost for CC. I have frequently "upgraded" to CC as a perk for good customers with whom I haven't been persuasive enough, when the job really deserves it. On a sizable job, I would just do it.

I have a small shop, and CC is my standard. It takes some time to hunt up a piece of regular glass, so it is something of a wash.

And if someone is a regular and spends well, I would do some form of "upgrade" with some frequency. It is far preferable to a discount.

One more thing to consider, I have observed that many people who clamor for discounts don't much care how much it is as long as they get it. I have one customer, a decorator, who is really always framing personal work. She negotiated a 10% discount with me back when she was doing work with clients, and always asks if she got it on her bill, but never asks how much the bill is.

I always give it to her but charge her an additional rush labor charge, which I usually earn because she brings in multiple items on a short turn-around. She actually spends more doing it this way, but she is happy, I am happy. I think it is just a psychological thing about "winning" in the relationship.

 

[Cathy Coggins]

Thanks Greg and Les. I appreciate the input and the venting. She has framed a lot, and has burned through framers. I am not afraid of designing big, and pulling out great product. She loves that, but not the price. I suppose I am complaining not just about me protecting her work more than she is, but what a PIA she is. She stitched huge stuff, and I have framed dozens of things for her, but she wants me to slash my prices.

This piece she stitched has over 185000 stitches in it, and it deserves a fine frame. But I have to squeeze every nickel out of her.

Thanks for listening, I feel better and will put the CC on it, but not tell her, history will know though.

 

[Russ Wood]

NEVER GIVE SOMETHING FOR FREE, WITHOUT LETTING THEM KNOW. PUT IT ON THE INVOICE, BUT THEN SHOW A CREDIT.

I'm kind of like what Greg says. Couple of points:

1. She says she wants a discount, and tried to go to someone else to get a better (discount %) price. She did, and you lost some dollars in business, but you are now getting it back. If she finds someone else, will you lose her again?

2. I don't know what size you are talking about, but most of the needle point items I do are probably smaller than 1/4 to 1/3 sheet of glass, so you can run the price difference, but that is not much in dollars, quite a bit in percentages. (I take dollars to the bank, not percentages).

3. My standard is CC followed by Museum, but I have a case of regular I occasionally use, but try not to.

4. If it were my customer, I would probably consider saying something similar to the following: a) you have been a good customer in the past, and I'm glad you have come back. b) I believe we offer the best quality and design in the state, for the kinds of things we do. Others may offer cheaper quality and design, but our quality and design is certainly worth the slight premium in cost. C) Like cheaper designs, I don't believe cheaper glass is appropriate for your work, and over time I believe you will realize I am right.

5. Depending on how my relationship was with the customer, - eg - fun to work with, etc., (not a PIA except for wanting a discount), I might add the following. .... d) However, as you do drive a long way, and as you are a quality needle-pointer (is this a real word?) and you realize our designs and quality are the best in the state, and I want your artistic works to continue to look great as long as they can, I propose the following: In the future, if I get at least 5 pieces a year from you, [or say $1,000 every year] I will charge you for the cheap regular glass, but I will upgrade it for you to the quality 2.5mm CC with 99% UV protection, for free.

 

[Cathy Coggins]

Russ, thanks for all of your input. There are some real gems in there. I will see her tomorrow and see how it goes.
The work pictured in the OP is quite large, and she likes wide mat margins, 4 1/2". The piece is like 24 1/2" by 28 1/2". So it is the better part of a sheet.

She rarely smiles and treats everything I say, regarding price, as suspect. But she likes my designs a lot.

She speaks in monotones, so it difficult to intuitively discern her, usually my strong suit. I also fear if I "give" anything away she will expect that and more every time she comes in.

Russ, seriously, I am going to read your post like 6 more times to use your wisdom. THANKS!

Oh, BTW, not really needle-pointers or cross-stitchers, IMHO, I think stitcher covers it. Although the two are night and day. The style, how they are worked, handled by separate stores (NP is one style of store, CS is another). And the two types have vastly different customers too, for us framers....Needlepoint stitchers spend heaps more on cross stitch stitchers. The is tons and tons of cross stitch work that has never seen a frame as that kind of stitcher is terrified of framers pricing. NP people drop a bunch on framing, generally.

 

[Jim Miller MCPF GCF]

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Retailing...

Your customer sounds familiar, Cathy. I guess we all have a few who are similar - they appreciate good taste, they are well-to-do, but discount-driven and resentful of higher prices for better stuff. At the extreme, some of these folks are retail bullies, simply determined to extract something extra just because they can. If you offer an inch they will take a mile. That said, they can be very good customers if we can manage to earn their trust and command their respect. Command their respect. Command their respect. Command their respect.

My approach has always been to make sure our potential customers understand a few things:
- We offer every range of framing quality from the lowest to the highest and you get to choose.
- We assure the maximum value (what you get for what you pay) in every price range.
- If the price is too high, then let's talk about something less.
- We are here to satisfy your framing wants and needs and nothing is sacred.
- If you buy on the basis of only price, the result may fall short of your expectations.
- If you buy on the basis of value, you will always be pleased.

Of course I offer coupons and other discounts at my discretion. But in all cases, I stand my ground on prices and steadfastly refuse to negotiate or grant discounts on demand. The integrity of my business is at stake.

 

[Wally Fay CPF]

There are all kinds of snappy comebacks for the penny-pincher. "How cheap do you want it to look?" for instance. In the end is really isn't all about the money, but whether or not they win the game, or, as in Greg's case, are led to believe so. Pricing with your customer's propensities in mind is a good thing.
Insuring your profitability is going to be more essential than ever with your move to larger, better space, and you are in the niche of intensive hands-on work. You're pricing needs to be commensurate with your expertise, and you shouldn't listen to the one-off complaint. Your hourly rate needs to be reflective of you knowledge, productivity levels, and the specialized equipment and overhead you pay for in order to be able to provide those services.
My Plumber charges $100.00 to show up. My electrician $130.00, and my A/C guy $120.00.
Tell me when you have 10% of your customers walking out the door because they can't afford you (NOT YOUR FAULT!!!) and I will tell you that you have hit the Sweet Spot.
One (two) more thing(s)...please don't give customer any credit for work she had done elsewhere. I've heard it too many times about already having spent soooo much money. If she's unhappy with the work done, she should take it up with the person that did it. OK, in addition, don't finalize your price until you have opened the work and see how much repair you will have to be doing. You have no idea what evils lurk in the back of that frame job.

 

[Russ Wood]

...., in addition, don't finalize your price until you have opened the work and see how much repair you will have to be doing. You have no idea what evils lurk in the back of that frame job.

Good advise Wally but I occasionally forget with regular customers. This weekend had a job where she wanted to reframe (done by someone else) existing original art in new cotton rag mat and spacer mat, instead of old yellowed "acid free" mats, but keep everything else the same, mounting mat, frame, glass, etc. Quoted price. Well, opened it up after she left, and the glass had a chip in it that was not obvious from the front.

It was regular glass which I luckily had, so I just substituted out at no charge, didn't have to clean old one (which was included in original price), but I certainly mentioned I replaced the glass at no charge, and it was also on the invoice.


You only learn from experience if you listen, and don't keep making the same mistakes over and over again. One of these days maybe I will listen, and learn.

 

[Les Martin. MCPF]

95% of our customers are the greatest retail customers to be found, we are lucky. For some reason we worry & talk more about the 5% that are trouble?? Not fair to us or the other good customers. The 5% just wear on us over time and we need "something" in our arsenal of tricks to handle them. Find the one solution that makes sure your business is not losing money and you can emotionally feel good at the end of the transaction That will be the right one.

 

[Paul Cascio]

Any customer that drives two hours to get buy from me, plus two hours to get home, then, does it again, deserves a bit more respect than what most of you are giving her. I wish all of my customers would take advantage of me like this. This woman is an A+ customer. Her grumbling is not an objection, it's merely a comment.

And, so what if she doesn't want CC glass -- it's her choice, not ours.

 

[Rick Granick]

I agree, Paul. Every now and then we encounter someone who is difficult to deal with in some way. It's just the nature of retail. For most of us, these types comprise a very tiny percentage of our otherwise wonderful clientele. Compare the net effect of that to someone who works in a corporate office and has to tolerate an insufferable, backstabbing boss day in and day out.

As Jim always wisely counsels, it's really about VALUE rather than PRICE. Despite her tiresome verbal protestations, she must see the value in your work, or she wouldn't keep driving all that way to come back.
As Russ suggested, I would probably grant her the glass upgrade to CC (and tell her that you did). She would feel as though she "won" something in the equation, but the net cost to you is pretty negligible in the context of the job. Plus, you'll feel comfortable knowing that Waterhouse will escape 99% of the UV exposure.
Rick

 

[Neil Zellman]

As far as upgrading to CC over regular glass, the dollar amount is pretty minimal unless it is a huge piece.
Often there is a scrap piece in the bin that can be used to make the difference even less.

Maybe I'm crazy or wrong but sometimes I do the "extra" regardless of what the customer wants to pay for, especially if I'm just using scraps.
Sometimes I just want to please myself by doing what I believe is the best thing and that's what floats my boat.

Just yesterday I stretched and framed a small canvas and I noticed a pencil sketch on the back of the canvas.
I don't know if it was a practice sketch for the original on the other side or just a nothing, throw away sketch.
I made a window in the back of the finished framing so the sketch could be seen.
I wasn't asked to and we didn't charge for it but it just took a few extra minutes.
It hasn't been picked up yet and maybe they don't care or maybe they will be thrilled, we'll see.
I'm happy with it and that's the most important thing to me.

I DO let the customer know what I've done, though.
Hopefully they will remember this.

 

[Ylva Callewaert]

I agree that this is a customer you want to keep. She is going the extra mile, literally.

Having said that, she will keep trying to find someone who is lower priced, so not so sure how loyal this customer is in the end. She's back for now. Until the next cheap offer appeals to her.

Hard to judge when you don't actually deal with the customer. I think I would just go ahead and use regular glass. Not because of the dollar amount, but of the expectation it might create with this customer. She will expect something for free all the time after this.

If using regular glass is a problem for you, because you feel it deserves conclear, why not make it your default glass?