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moral/ethical non framing question.

Mikki Kavich MCPF

Mikki Kavich MCPF

Frequent Poster
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Messages
689
Loc
Crossville, TN
Company
Mikki's Frame Shop
back story....I fired this customer 2 years ago...for good reasons.

When I first framed art for this person a third party brought it in and picked it up and it was always good money.
Third party once said..."We bring it for him because we don't want him driving!"

Third party quit bringing stuff in for this person and he started coming in himself. Very soon after he asked me to deliver a large piece to his house....I fired him.
He always smells like alcohol, a lot of alcohol but I have never seen him drink and he does not stumble around. He talks in a very deliberate way the way my father did....after a case of beer.
I have to open my doors when he leaves to air the shop out.

He came in today, I did not tell him to leave but had my phone in my hand the whole time he was in here.
He left....he smelled of booze so so so bad...he is driving.

I have a strong dislike of him and only my nose and past experience to make my assumptions.

What would you do?
 
I would report him as soon as he put the key in his car. Driving changes everything.

Raise his price to the point that he will at least be thinking about going elsewhere. If his behavior otherwise gets out of hand, then all bets are off and call the cops while he is in the store.

Ask yourself how a BB store would handle it, and don't feel like just because you are small and independent that you have to tolerate something a bigger business wouldn't. And finally, trust your gut.
 
My "gut" says he is a long time alcoholic that does not stumble or mumble or whatever.
My head says...what if it's not booze you smell? what if it is medication, Listerine....

My stomach says I will have to tell him to leave immediately if he ever comes in my door again because he upsets me that much and I don't have to have that!!!!
Evidently he forgot I very plainly fired him as a customer 2 years ago.
 
Or maybe he was hoping you forgot you fired him!

I would call the cops as soon as he gets in the car and tell them which way his going and what he is driving. He sounds like a functioning alcoholic.
 
Plan A:
Tell him to call for an appointment before he comes in, which would give you an opportunity to arrange to have another person there with you. If he's as far gone as some alcoholics I've known, he probably would forget and drop in anyway. When he does, make him think you're hurried and tell him, "Sorry, but I have to leave for another appointment now, so let's make an appointment for you to come back another time." Then escort him to the door, follow him out, lock the shop, and drive around the block. If he follows you, drive to the Police station.

Plan B:
Do you have a nearby neighbor who could drop everything and come immediately when you call? If so, set it up and clearly explain that you might need an "urgent visitor" for personal security.

Plan C:
Get a big, quiet "shop dog". This wouldn't be my first choice, because some customers are distracted and/or uncomfortable around unknown dogs, especially big ones. Also, training and taking care of the animal is a lot of work. However, a lot of work-alone framers keep such pets, and some customers will come in just to visit the dog and bring treats.
 
Dear Mikki, I'm not sure asking picture framers is your best source for security information and I don't see where this is a "moral/ethical" question. I get the sense this person scares you for a number of reasons and you should not need to live that way.
I suggest you go to the people who would handle this situation if it should exacerbate. The Police who cover your store area during your normal ours. Make an appointment to talk with the Sgt. or supervisor of the patrol that is yours on a daily bases. Explain why you feel this way, what has happened and find out what they recommend. This will insure the situation is of record and will make it more likely to be spread throughout the station rather than one or two officers. They have handled this type of thing before and are trained in the field.
I get the feeling you don't know when or if your ex-customer will be back. Bringing in a neighbor only opens that person to liability. Unless the police are involved this could become a personal grudge type of things that would not be good for business or your emotional well being. The local police are paid to help you and most of them really do want to be of service. If they don't have what you think is the best answer ask for suggestions where to get help with this guy. Try not to doubt your feelings.
 
Mikki Kavich said:
Third party quit bringing stuff in for this person and he started coming in himself. Very soon after he asked me to deliver a large piece to his house....I fired him.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? How did you do it?

If you said "Sorry, I can't do business with you any longer", then you can just do the same thing every time he comes in.

From a legal sense I guess once you tell him he's not welcome there any more, the next step would be to call the cops if he shows up again. The next time, call the cops again and then apply for a restraining order.
 
Somehow I don't think this is a primarily moral or ethical question. It's a question on how to rid yourself of a deadbeat drunk.
Phone calls take too long and police response as well. Arm yourself with non-lethal means of repelling him, like a police whistle, air horn (good for directing the sound at his head) or a chemical repellant (pepper spray would be my suggestion because it is compact and you can carry it on your person at all times).
Notify the police of your concerns by all means and let them know that you are going to aggressively attempt to repel this guy, but don't expect them to be your first line of defense.
If he ever shows up again, go to the front door, step outside and hold it open and tell him he is not welcome and that he needs to leave immediately and never return. Don't respond to whatever he says, just repeat that mantra. Have your pepper spray ready and if you point it at him, pull the trigger...don't bluff.

On the other hand, if your concern is that he will do damage to others and himself while driving impaired, then the police are your best best.
 
Never have been great with words....and explaining what I think I mean!

My question stems from "my GUT feeling" because I have no personal knowledge of his drinking other than how he smells. I don't like him at all and he makes me uncomfortable and he reminds me of someone I knew well that was a functioning alcoholic. So my indecision comes from that age old...I don't want to get someone in trouble thing. If I saw him drinking this would not be a question but going to the police on "feelings" is a hard thing to do.

If the officer asked me did I see him drinking, stumbling or acting drunk I would have to say no so that is what I have a hard time getting past.

I brought this up here because I know several one woman frame shops and I think it is important to feel safe in your shop by yourself.

You all are not my only "help" on this situation but I think it is a good thing to discuss.
 
Lot of answers from guys. Let's be honest, it's different when you're a woman. It's not all that easy to fire a customer and to reinforce that if he comes back.

I've had people come in that made me uncomfortable and I simply don't know either how to handle that when alone. Usually my husband is around next door, but not on Saturdays. There is simply no one around on Saturdays.
I wouldn't say I am all that easily intimidated but I do realize that if it would come to a fight, I'd probably not come out winning.

Sometimes it's just a feeling, you can't describe it, when you would try to make if official (as in reporting to police) they might just laugh it away as there is no hard proof.
I have learned to trust my instincts. I am quite positive that Mikki has too.

Is there anyone in the police department, maybe someone you'd slightly know, or maybe someone who knows someone, you could talk to? Just tell that it is maybe nothing, maybe silly, but...
then tell what you told here.

I know some of those police men would definitely take you seriously. They also know what instinct is. Start by saying that this guy is making you uncomfortable. You would probably be surprised what they can do for you.

Good luck, I know how you feel.
 
Most people who get into trouble have let their head override their gut. Those gut feelings come from subconscious observations. Chances are very good that other merchants have similar reactions. It is even likely that law enforcement is familiar with him.

Most places--probably everywhere now--the smell of alcohol is probable cause for intervention by law enforcement. There is an array of symptoms of alcohol intoxication. Lack of physical coordination is only one of them. Most law enforcement folks would much rather give prevention advice than respond to a crime. It is amazing the things a police officer will notice while in your store, simple things to improve your security.

Even if your community doesn't have an active crime-prevention program, officers are usually happy to meet with you to talk about your concerns. It makes their job easier. We form relationships with our bankers, accountants, etc, so it sure wouldn't hurt to have at least a passing acquaintance with law enforcement before we need them. I am blessed to have a number of officers as customers. They often notice little things that can be changed.

I probably worry about security more than most since many of my employees have been women who I often have to leave alone in the store for lengthy periods of time. I always tell them if they have to think about whether or not to call 911, then they need to call. They can tell me all about it later.
 
We had the police visit for security advise. It was mostly common sense and of little extra costs. (Highly Recommend)
As for feeling uncomfortable, we have a buzzer to the back, when engaged, someone immediately comes to the front. When alone, we have neighbor contacts that when called come right away, and vise versa to them.
When your alone and really uncomfortable, (Hair on the back of your neck stands up, and I've been there) LEAVE don't close up, don't try to communicate, JUST LEAVE, go were you'll be safe.
 
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