• Welcome to the Framer's Corner Forum, hosted by the Professional Picture Framers Association. (PPFA)
    You will have to register a free account, before you can SEARCH or access the system. If you have already registered, please LOG IN
    If you have already registered, but can't remember your password, CLICK HERE to reset it.

Jay Goltz

Cathy Coggins

Cathy Coggins

Frequent Poster
Messages
462
Loc
Kissimmee, Florida
Company
Needle Craft World
I had not seen the thread about Jay. BUT did just have a lengthy conversation with him. I still have to read all of your thoughts. And will.

The only caution I will give is he held on to problems of 15+ years ago as his trouble with PPFA. THAT was not my PPFA, I wasn't around. Also, I can see many of you are HEAPING mad. Help fix this not make it worse. Please. This industry is WAY to tiny and all of us are a facet to an potentially BRILLIANT gem.

I posted this on CLs but see it needs to be here:

PFM Breakfast had an awkward moment when one of the members asked Jay Goltz if he was a member. He said he was not as he "did not see the value in it".

He just called me, as we here in SE are planning our second bigger and better Frame Fest. He spoke for us last year as a favor. And because I asked him to, with sufficient buttering up (ask me about it, it's a funny story). Well, he was not proud of the way things went down at the PFM thing. He asked about Frame Fest 2015 the dates and wants to come again. And his topic is so on message with what I believe in in the direction of this the PPFA of 2015. He said he thought he should have been asked if he had been asked to become a member lately. Well I asked him. And he said absolutely!

Interestingly Wally Fay and I are talking about making PPFA membership a requirement for FF participation...so I asked him to become a member and he said YES!!!!

So any of you that threw away you samples, canceled your orders and threw darts at his photo, please, please please. Hang in there. Flies with honey and we need you and he and me to all do business together to make a difference. There are far too few of use for those kind of schisms. We need them and all of us.

He is developing new and wonderful topics SPECIFICALLY for Frame Fest, for ya'll. And I believe him and in him just like I do all of you. We need each other.

Frame Fest September 19-21, 2015 In Lake Buena Vista Florida, BY framers FOR framers. We can only make a difference together.
 
Cathy Coggins said:
.... The only caution I will give is he (Jay Goltz) held on to problems of 15+ years ago as his trouble with PPFA. THAT was not my PPFA, I wasn't around. Also, I can see many of you are HEAPING mad. Help fix this not make it worse. Please. This industry is WAY to tiny and all of us are a facet to an potentially BRILLIANT gem...
Click to expand...

Cathy,

PPFA had problems 15 years ago.... it had problems 35 years ago... It has problems today.

Sorry Jay, but I never dropped my membership and always felt I could work better to correct any issues from within.

Jay Goltz is much too intelligent and large in business, to have left our only trade association with an "what do they do for me" attitude. Even when I was a member of his FramerSelect (Marketing) group, I still maintained my PPFA membership. FramerSelect failed and is now gone.

He does have something to say and share and I am glad that your enthusiasm and/or his desperation is causing him to rethink membership.

John
 
John, I know stuff happened 15 odd years ago. He felt wronged or lied to or something (I don't hang on to negative details, so what exactly eludes). It is in the past and is irrelevant.

He sounded ill pleased with the outcome of that morning regarding PPFA. And the question was candid and off the cuff, his response was likewise. Or at least from what I heard. (I had already left as I was hungry, and the comments about 'craft stores not doing any of us any favors' and 'needlework being dead' had already sufficiently alienated me an my business). The vast majority of that room was likely not PPFA, therefore his comments were likely made without much thought. My conversation with Jay was far finer than that. ALL of my endeavors with Bella have been far finer than that.

This thread and the others along this line, they disturb me. We are often criticized as being cliquish and exclusive, and not welcoming. If we are so few, and if this comments are made against us....some of these comments are proof. I am so proud to stand with you all, to work with you all, to make a difference with you all. I urge you all to stop judging and accept. And stop cordoning off the sandbox. I will not condemn the man for some careless statements, especially as we have work to do, and FRANKLY we could use his help.

Look hard at yourselves and your judgements folks, let Jay worry about his own.
 
Cathy Coggins said:
...I urge you all to stop judging and accept. And stop cordoning off the sandbox. I will not condemn the man for some careless statements, especially as we have work to do, and FRANKLY we could use his help.
Click to expand...
You make good points, Chickie. It is easy to respond emotionally to criticism of the association we are trying to maintain and improve. Instead of taking it personally, more benefit would come from objectively understanding the criticism; where it comes from, why it exists, and what it would take to satisfy and recruit the critics.

Consider Jay Goltz's perspective. Like it or not, his businesses and others like them probably have nothing to gain from PPFA. That notwithstanding, his comments at the breakfast were valid and represent a popular opinion of PPFA that has prevailed for years among framers who actually could gain from membership. Given some time to consider the question, maybe he would have come up with a more delicate response, or maybe not. Jay Goltz is not known for delicate responses. On the contrary, he is known for blunt, incisive, unvarnished truth and that's what we got. There is nothing wrong with that.

To many of the non-members I've had the pleasure to meet, PPFA seems to be a relatively small group of "believers"; something like a cult. Those who have no interest in contributing a little bit of money, a whole lot of time, and at least some effort to participate in the association simply do not get it. In most cases, I believe that improving the industry is completely off their radar. In reality, when framers focused on their own interests ask "What's in it for me?", PPFA often falls short of expectations.

If Jay Goltz rejoins PPFA, I can't imagine it would be to benefit his businesses. But as a leader in the industry, perhaps he's feeling an obligation to show support for our only trade association, imperfect as it is. There is still great potential for PPFA to serve important purposes. Yes, we absolutely could use his help.
 
Jim Miller said:
If Jay Goltz rejoins PPFA, I can't imagine it would be to benefit his businesses.
Click to expand...


I can. PPFA provides access to state of the art education and educators as well as standards and guidelines that would benefit a company of any size.

I have "consulted" with his staff members several times where they had installation questions. While I am a "personal" friend of Jay's, access to other educators such as Jim Miller, Hugh Phibbs or Paul Storch may also be beneficial and could assist his design or framing staff with technical questions that they might not know the answers too.

I find it ironic that he would use his platform at the West Coast Art and Frame Expo to bash the PPFA, yet consider an opportunity to teach at last year's Framefest as well as show an interest to return next year.

I was a part of the "advisory committee" when Jay was also a member. I know that they (PMA) lied to his face and there were other circumstances that rightfully caused him to abandon the organization. We all know of the difficulties with PMA - but a dedicated group persevered and changed/enhanced/provided imformation and opportunities that were within our sphere of influence.

When Jay said the things that he did, I found them personally hurtful as well as insulting and hurtful to my friends and colleagues. I also found it troubling that PFM would provide him a platform to unfairly bash the PPFA in light of the strides we have made to co-locate the PPFA Convention at WCAF.

I applaud Cathy's tenaciousness to communicate with Jay directly and her willingness to allow him an opportunity to participate in this year's Framefest - though I do not feel it should come to fruition without a public statement from him that he might have been mistaken in his comments and they were directed at the prior PMA administration and not to the dedicated, hard working VOLUNTEERS who have made the current PPFA viable and productive.
 
Rob, thanks. Just thanks.

Jim, I think it can benefit his biz. PPFA members are WELL qualified leads. We are not looking for fast and furious framing, we are looking to better ourselves, and putting our names and works together and one the line; that says alot to our commitment, and what type of clients we are. These are not mutually exclusive, but the commitment is something special.

Also the emergence in the Frame Fest style of doing things will and can revolutionize buying teaching and presenting all things framing. I spoke with Sam at Bella on the trade floor, FANTASTIC guy, and sharp, he spoke about what a trade org should be doing for our industry. All his points are things on my personal radar. I told him "we ought to be doing those things for you". What I hope we can change about our small but mighty industry. He told me about the LARGE numbers spent on events like WCAF. The tens of thousands of dollars that get spent OUTSIDE the framing industry. We can not change that over night, but innovation has changed and is FAR more affordable if it is properly utilized. And who are some of the very best innovators...well framers are high among them.

Rob, I think he will have a piece to say. That being said, from what I know of the man...he'll make it good.

Side note: PFM breakfast panel next year....Robin Gentry ought to be on it. We are the Professional Picture Framers Association. And we ought not be ignored. I stand among some of the most respectable people. It is an honor to call ya'll colleagues and even friends.
 
Cathy Coggins said:
Side note: PFM breakfast panel next year....Robin Gentry ought to be on it. We are the Professional Picture Framers Association. And we ought not be ignored. I stand among some of the most respectable people. It is an honor to call ya'll colleagues and even friends.
Click to expand...

I wish I had read this before my conversation with Bruce Gherman. I will add a PS to our call and suggest it to him as I think it would be a great idea.

Bruce is aware of the situation and agrees that Jay's response might not have been the most beneficial. I gave Bruce some of the back story re: Jay and PMA and interestingly, Bruce had a similar experience with the old PMA and that was a big part of why it took so long to be able to co-locate the PPFA Convention with the WCAF (which I still think is an excellent idea and that it should continue.)

Today was Bruce's first day back in the office since the show and if I am 1/2 as exhausted as he is, the guy must be wiped out. It was quite a show despite the unfortunate comments made at the panel discussion.

Bruce wants an opportunity to speak with Jay before he formulates a response - but in light of the tremendous efforts made by Cathy - he may find a remorseful Jay and things could work themselves out. Either way, I don't think you will find a transcript of the conversation published in the magazine as it would be of no benefit to anyone.
 
PMA was our savior and our albatross. We ALL have stories.
Although they are still our owners, it's a refreshing new team.

I am optimistic and hoping that the membership of some long term hold outs like Jay and Dave Wetterstroem signals a new willingness to get involved.

We've been rowing hard in a small boat for a while and could use some new arms.
We're too small an industry to fight among ourselves.

The comments still eat at me, but I can get over them if Jay really wants to help out.
 
Rob Markoff said:
I can. PPFA provides access to state of the art education and educators as well as standards and guidelines that would benefit a company of any size.

I have "consulted" with his staff members several times where they had installation questions... other educators...may also be beneficial and could assist his design or framing staff with technical questions that they might not know the answers too.
Click to expand...
Like you and some others, I have talked with AFS employees and have presented dedicated classes at AFS. Yes, it's true that PPFA's educational resources and publications can be useful for any framing business, but membership is not necessary in order to gain access to those. Admittedly, framers paying non-member prices for PPFA classes and books would quickly save enough in members' discounts to cover the dues.

When Jay said the things that he did, I found them personally hurtful as well as insulting and hurtful to my friends and colleagues. I also found it troubling that PFM would provide him a platform to unfairly bash the PPFA in light of the strides we have made to co-locate the PPFA Convention at WCAF.
Click to expand...
Rob, Jay probably did not plan in advance to make negative comments about PPFA, and PFM probably had no idea they were coming. Unfortunately, the words have done their damage. Let's accept that everyone, including Jay Goltz, can make a mistake. I agree that he should apologize for speaking so brutally, but not for voicing his opinion, which is mostly valid. Jay Goltz has a long history of talented analysis, straight talk, and fairness. Let's just leave it at that and welcome him back into the association.
 
Last edited:
I'll say this in this thread

I can't find the dues rate chart but doesn't PPFA charge a lot more for a million dollar business. If I'm right than this is a bigger decision for Jay Golz than it is for most.

I've been a member of PMA for 25 years and served on our local PPFA chapter board for a couple of years, We hear a lot about the meltdown 15 years ago. I've experienced unprofessional behavior and conflicts within the past 5 years. It's not always a happy experience.

I really don't see a great relationship between WCAF and PPFA. If you went to the WCAF website before the show not one single word was mentioned about the PPFA activities. Vendors and attendees pick up on the pariah vibe. PPFA should insist on a bigger role in the show.

I agree with Dave Watterson when he posted in a different thread. >>>>>> I do think there is a real problem with respect for the PPFA as in the vast majority of the vendors and framers don't respect it. Look at where the PPFA booth was stuck at the WCAF show when they are partnered with it. ....I don't think this perception will change till the PPFA takes on a business focus rather than having the focus being on the craft of framing.<<<<<

PPFA has to do more for it's larger companies and vendors. I would suggest pages and links and stories included in the new website.

I also have a radical suggestion. Sit down please because I'm about to upset many in PPFA. Don't shoot me!
icon7.png


I've been involved with planning several events big and small. One PPFA requirement that sucks away resources and energy is the Frame Competition. A whole crew of people plus an extra room plus qualified judges who fly in or drive distance and stay in hotels......this is too much. And it benefits too few and it's the same few. My observations is that larger business don't participate and new members may be too shy to enter.

My suggestion is to figure out a simpler way that involves lowers the cost.

Take those resources and bring in speakers.

Final point ....Will someone please say something about the changes at PMA and PPFA. New CEO, Management Company for operations, different locations.
Is all this a secret between a few special people...... Have you heard that complaint from anyone?

I'm speaking only for myself. I hope you all know that I've supported for many years.

Doug Vieau
 
Doug, first, except for some management around shipping and receiving, the competition is run by volunteers. There aren't a lot of resources getting "sucked away."

I would also add that the competition is a major tool I use to Grow my business. I left the board so I could compete again, because I noticed the difference in NOT competing. You don't have to place to use it as a great tool. This isn't the thread, but if you don't see the competition as a major marketing tool, you need to re-understand it.

I thought the new org was all out in the open. There were press releases and there is a thread somewhere about it. The new PMA Director spoke at the all member meeting. I'll see if Robin wants to start another thread about it, but I'm not sure what she would add.

LOL, I was going to ask, "What is it you don't know?"

P.S. The dues structure has been complained about for years. Many are hopeful that the new regime will revisit it and we can establish an equitable arrangement for our industry and not one designed for the photo industry of 15 years ago.
 
Doug, since last year, vendors get the same $95 special everyone else gets. The levels are on the back of the membership application however.

It is no longer necessary to spend a lot of money paying travel expenses for judges. The Competition Board actually addressed this a few years ago, but it has taken a while for this fact to filter down to the chapter level, probably because we rely on the same competition chairs year after year and tradition prevails. But it doesn't have to be expensive to conduct a successful competition.

Internationally, the competition is designed to be revenue neutral.

This is not to say that we shouldn't discuss or evaluate the effectiveness of competitions or any other program.
 
I am just getting caught up on all the activity since the show so am just getting around to responding.

As to Doug's concerns with new management - there was a press release in December announcing Georgia McCabe as the New Executive Director of PMA. There will be additional press releases coming in the next few weeks. I do not have the dates as of yet but the reason they have not been out earlier is the PMA convention and then the PPFA Convention took priority. Since these events are now completed time will be focused on other areas.

PPFA is now being managed by the Coulter Group (now PPFA Staff), Look them up at www.wearecoulter.com. Our contacts are Amy Lestition, Mary Katherine Saladino, and Lindsey Emow. As the needs of PPFA are addressed we may have more people assigned to PPFA. Currently the PPFA Staff are going through data and assessing the needs of the organization. They have ask the board for a list of priority items which we are getting together. As Cliff stated Georgia spoke at the All Member Meeting and she was also at the Welcome Reception. I saw several people talking to her at the Reception. Also there were Staff members available at the PPFA Booth along with many Volunteers (Thank You!) and they were talking to the attendees.

The office in Jackson has been closed and all items are now in Virginia at the Coulter Offices, now the PPFA/PMA offices. Currently Melissa Aldrich, Jen Kruger, and Sheila Pursglove have been retained by Coulter. As many are friends with Nick on FB you saw he left PPFA, what he did not state in his post was he gave his notice and started a new job the following Monday. Don't assume anything!

All in all considering the PPFA Staff were only on the job since December 23 or there abouts they have stepped up to the plate and allowed PPFA to have a great convention. They are working hard to understand our organization and asking questions. The Coulter Group is a Professional Association Management Group, so this is not their first rodeo. Please give them time to acclimate and make suggestions from their experience to improve PPFA. Which is what we all want and are working for.

Now is the time committees are forming. If you have a specific area of interested Please let me know and I will direct you to the correct committee. Remember PPFA is volunteer based. We need everyone to help out to make the organization Great.

Please let me know what you want to know?

As to Jay and his comments. We all have opinions. He made some valid points and I think it would be good to have him on a committee. Could things have been said in a not so confrontational manner probably but when anyone is put on the spot things do not always come out the way we intend. I was in the audience and while many will say I should have said something I did not because I felt my response would have been in the heat of the moment and not taken the way it was intended, much like Jay's response. So I guess what I am saying is cut him some slack and lets see what Good he can bring to the PPFA.

Robin
 
Cliff Wilson said:
.......but if you don't see the competition as a major marketing tool, you need to re-understand it.

I thought the new org was all out in the open. There were press releases and there is a thread somewhere about it. The new PMA Director spoke at the all member meeting. I'll see if Robin wants to start another thread about it, but I'm not sure what she would add.
LOL, I was going to ask, "What is it you don't know?"
Click to expand...

Oh I understand perfectly the marketing benefits of winning and scoring in a print competition. I'm saying that the number who benefit is small.

I'm glad you got a good LOL from my silly inquiry.

Doug
 
Robin,

Thanks for the good information. I did see the PMA Newsline information but other that that I didn't know a lot.

Will PPFA still be associated with PMA or will it stand on it's own?

Doug
 
Doug Vieau said:
I'll say this in this thread



I agree with Dave Watterson when he posted in a different thread. >>>>>> I do think there is a real problem with respect for the PPFA as in the vast majority of the vendors and framers don't respect it. Look at where the PPFA booth was stuck at the WCAF show when they are partnered with it. ....I don't think this perception will change till the PPFA takes on a business focus rather than having the focus being on the craft of framing.<<<<<



I've been involved with planning several events big and small. One PPFA requirement that sucks away resources and energy is the Frame Competition. A whole crew of people plus an extra room plus qualified judges who fly in or drive distance and stay in hotels......this is too much. And it benefits too few and it's the same few. My observations is that larger business don't participate and new members may be too shy to enter.

My suggestion is to figure out a simpler way that involves lowers the cost.



Doug Vieau
Click to expand...

First point, the booth this years was in a decent location I thought, there was lots of traffic.


Competition judging, our chapter does not hire or pay judges, we ask for judges from our chapter membership, we have several accredited judges, and CPF's to work with. We do not rent a room for this, we will do it, in house, at a shop or home the night before or the weekend before. If people are driving in a distance, we make it work, but we make sure that the judging responsibility is in addition to their plans. If you don't have enough judges, you might want to promote to members to become a CPF or take the judging course in Vegas, maybe in the long run it would benefit your chapter to pay for the class or assisit with the class or test, probably cheaper than a judges fee or hotel stay.
 
PPFA is still part of the PMA umbrella like the other associations (DIMA, PSPA, AIE, NAPET, PIEA and SPAA).
 
PPFA Connect Newsletter
Back
Top