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Art and Framing measurements

L

Liz Walker

New participant
Messages
2
Loc
Baton Rouge, La
Company
Elizabethan Gallery
Hi,
This is Liz Walker, owner of Elizabethan Gallery in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I have been in the art and framing business since 1977 and either joined PPFA that year or the next (under Mel's Frame Gallery originally).
I'm curious to know if there is a standard in our industry so far as which measurement (width or height) should be listed first.
I have always thought, from going to trade shows etc., that the width's measurement goes first and then the height. This would apply for both framing work and describing the size of a piece of artwork.
I work with many art groups and interior designers and they all think differently.
Anyone know the answer to this question?
Liz
 
Hello Liz,
The Fine Art Trade Guild wrote in their Studyguide for the Guild Commended Framer / GCF Exam the following:

Sotheby's, Christie's and all the international art-dealing fraternity measure artwork height before width, and list it accordingly in their catalogs; this has become a norm throughout the pictureframing industry.

However, my POS software system Framesmart orders me to type in the width first and then the height, which I find annoying.
 
I started out using whatever was the shortest measurement first, mainly because that was the way standard frames were measured, e.g. 8 x 10, 11 x 14, etc. I then noted on the ticket whether it was horizontal or vertical. This was fine when I was using paper tickets, but after I started using POS software, I had to choose. I chose vertical before horizontal, and that has worked fine for us.

It is just a mouse click to reverse it, but I have stayed consistent since there are several of us using the system.
 
Kai Vanuffelen said:
.......Sotheby's, Christie's and all the international art-dealing fraternity measure artwork height before width, and list it accordingly in their catalogs; ............
Click to expand...

What do they know. :smile:

35 years in the photofinishing industry and I just can't say it any other way....small number first.....followed by H or V if relevant. If you indicate Horizontal or vertical you get no confusion, ever, even when cranking out a million prints per year.

Hearing 20x16 hurts my brain.:yuck:

Also....portrait and landscape are horrible terms.

I'm not sure a standard can exist with so many people doing it differently.

Doug
 
Very interesting topic/discussion and welcome to Framer's Corner!

Talking with a lot of people about software at trade shows I can say that the majority of framers do width first. It is the default for most POS programs. Most programs have a setting to reverse this, for those who want it the other way.

Something else I found interesting is that some areas in the midwest, the framers measure from the frame IN - rather than from the art OUT.

Mike
 
In the museum and fine art world, height is proceeded by width, this way art historians, curators and dealers or anyone in the know, will know the orientation of the artwork. I used to work at a very high end art gallery where I learned the practice and have used it since.
 
The FACTS Standard GEN-1998 says, in part...

7.2 7.2 All dimensions shall be recorded with indication as to the standard of measurement used.
7.3 7.3 The measuring device should accommodate the largest dimension to be recorded.
7.4 7.4 Measurement should be taken on a direct line between opposing sides. The measuring device should not curve or bend between points of measure.
7.5 7.5 All measurements shall be taken from the recto, front or face.
7.6 7.6 The vertical dimension shall be recorded first.
7.7 7.7 The horizontal dimension shall be recorded second.
7.8 7.8 The thickness or depth dimension shall be recorded third.
Click to expand...

However, our POS system, which is a very popular program, shows width first, then height.
 
Last edited:
Well what a revolting development! I am aware of all that y'all have relayed to me. So I'm still not completely certain what a solution would be. I certainly have seen the width then height listed also at many high end galleries throughout the USA. And I hark back to the late 70's when I attended my first PPFA convention held in New Orleans. That's when I first got my real framing training and width then height was what I was taught. Shame that whomever wrote the standards changed that.
 
Liz Walker said:
Shame that whomever wrote the standards changed that.
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, the FACTS standard was never widely respected within the industry, perhaps because so many framers already had established procedures. So, for practical purposes, there is no standard.

Maybe the best advice would be to establish a consistent process of recording dimensions in your shop, and clearly label the height, width, and depth dimensions in whatever order you establish to record them.
 
Following the demise of the FACTS organization, the FATG acquired the right to their standards.
When cutting the four rails in my workshop, I cut the longest two rails first, then the shortest. In case I make a mistake, then I can still use the longest rail for turning it into a short rail.

As a result, I denote on my worksheet the longest number first, preceded by the capital letter R and then the shortest number. This is regardless of whether I am dealing with a portrait or landscape.
 
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