• Welcome to the Framer's Corner Forum, hosted by the Professional Picture Framers Association. (PPFA)
    You will have to register a free account, before you can SEARCH or access the system. If you have already registered, please LOG IN
    If you have already registered, but can't remember your password, CLICK HERE to reset it.

Moulding Quality - A race to the bottom.

Andrew Lenz Jr.

Frequent Poster
Messages
206
Location
Santa Cruz, CA
Company
Lenz Arts, Inc.
I've been doing this for a long time. I started framing in the 1970s as a wee lad. I've seen Alphamat invented, acid-free foamboard invented, regular matboards become buffered, UV glass invented, computerized mat cutters invented. There have been a lot of great innovations and trends in the framing industry/trade.

BUT . . .

Not all is well.

Back in the day, it was common to see "1 foot allowance" and "1/2 foot allowance" stickers on sticks of moulding. Someone actually took the time to look for flaws. Now, you almost never see such markings—defective segments are left for the framer to simply pay for regardless and stumble across.

These days, it's problem, after problem, after problem. Yes, we're very picky. But should we really have to be returning obviously warped sticks of moulding? And cutting around multiple flaws—specks in the finish, visible finger-joins, severe knots, dents that were painted over, etc.—on sticks of moulding?

And I'm not talking one company. It's manufacturer, after manufacturer. Larson Juhl, Studio, Nurre Caxton, International Moulding, etc. It seems like a race to the bottom in terms of quality. Yes, I'd pay an extra $1 (or more) per foot to have stick completely usable. But a higher price doesn't always mean that the moulding will be defect free. As it is, it's costing us so much in labor to cut and recut and return and recut again.

We still cut our own frames from stocked length in our warehouse. Maybe we're dinosaurs. I'm really tempted to switch to chop and just return bad frames and let the distributor deal with them.

Has anyone found a moulding supplier that is an exception to the rule and has very few problems with their length moulding?

Andrew
 
I am seeing lots and lots of chipping, especially with International, but I am having issues with many other companies. There are certain lines I just avoid now. Yesterday, I had to email the local supplier because a box of moulding i bought was causing so many problems, I was sick of redoing or repairing flaking finishes. They claimed the gesso shrunk from being in excessive cold temp. I don't know if that is from Asia, the trip over, or being stored in the local warehouse, maybe all of them. They are replacing my box of moulding. I am sick of it.
 
I am seeing lots and lots of chipping, especially with International, but I am having issues with many other companies. There are certain lines I just avoid now. Yesterday, I had to email the local supplier because a box of moulding i bought was causing so many problems, I was sick of redoing or repairing flaking finishes. They claimed the gesso shrunk from being in excessive cold temp. I don't know if that is from Asia, the trip over, or being stored in the local warehouse, maybe all of them. They are replacing my box of moulding. I am sick of it.

I am trying to stay away from the Asian mouldings altogether - unfortunately I'm finding that just about impossible to do. We are getting the same excuse here about the moulding getting to cold and shrinking, chipping, cracking, color match problems, etc. - it is funny how the US and European moulding didn't have that same problems - just saying. I know I pay more for the European & USA mouldings but I have far less problems and my customers don't seem to mind. To be fair I will say that I have had a few issues with the European moulding but far far less than the stuff coming from Asian.

Most of the vendors that we have issues with are pretty liberal about taking the faulty moulding back. Like you I'm sick of the bad product - it cost time and money to screw around with it. Oh well, sign of the times I guess... Joe
 
... Yes, I'd pay an extra $1 (or more) per foot to have stick completely usable. But a higher price doesn't always mean that the moulding will be defect free. ...Has anyone found a moulding supplier that is an exception to the rule and has very few problems with their length moulding?

Our suppliers are in the capital-intensive businesses of manufacturing and/or distribution, both of which suffer terribly in a declining market. The survivors have been struggling to adapt in recent years, trying to squeeze every penny of profit out of diminishing sales and fewer customers, in order to keep paying for their fixed overhead and necessary inventory.

I don't wish to make excuses for shoddy products - I have to deal with them, too - but the "race to the bottom" is really their race for survival.
 
I have not been framing as long as the rest of the people on this thread so I do not know how things used to be. Right now, I am very happy with several suppliers and really appreciate their support. Fotiou, Roma, Picture Woods and Larson have been very consistent for me. When a problem does come up, I do not have a problem with them taking care of the situation immediately and working it out. Yes, it is inconvenient for me and the customer but things do happen and that unfortunately is part of the industry as I know it. There are other companies that I have purchased from over the years and their product is not on my wall because of many problems and defects. I also appreciate the effort from my suppliers to create beautiful unique products that allow me to offer my customers great options.
 
The reason seems clear, to me.

It's called consumer demand.

Consumers of the last 1-2 decades have consistently and aggressively selected price over quality, so unless manufacturers can find a way to make an equivalent product cheaper, the quality has to go down. If you have any type of main stream product (I don't care if it's food, clothing, automobiles, or picture frames), you have to cut your price (and therefore, quality) or go out of business. With possible rare exceptions, the only quality products left today are niche items.
 
I don't wish to make excuses for shoddy products - I have to deal with them, too - but the "race to the bottom" is really their race for survival.

I understand your point, but it's like all of us dropping our prices and pushing out bad framing in order to compete. There has to be a happy middle ground of good value of higher price and acceptable quality.

Apparently, we're in the minority since if all shops were returning sticks at the rate we do, I think our distributors would go out of business. On a recent order from one supplier, I think we sent over half the sticks back.

I think Larson is improving things. I spoke with Drew Van Pelt (CEO) about a year ago and he said they were implementing new quality control measures at their overseas facilities, so they were aware the issue needed to be addressed.

If framers are buying solely on price, it tells me that either they pass along defects to customers or aren't aware of the cost associated with the loss of time and materials.

Part of the point of my posting (aside from venting) is to learn if there are suppliers that have less quality issues than others.

Andrew
 
I've been framing for 10 years and am shocked by the decline in quality over even that amount of time. It is a daily time issue for me to deal with quality issues from moulding suppliers and quite frankly, it's making me very crabby.

I'm also astounded at the cheap look of a lot of the profiles that are not getting any less expensive. We often open a box and have to compare it to the wall sample because it looks nothing like it and it is obvious. I tell the rep's that if they keep cheapening the look of mouldings, people will not understand the point in paying more for it over purchasing pre-mades.
 
I have to agree with many of the comments here (and I do understand Jim's point, too). Mouldings are getting harder to work with and achieve predictably good results. It's to the point where even the big names are selling us "knock offs" of what they used to carry. On the aesthetic end, many classic styles have been discontinued, and many of the newer offerings seem to be "safe" copycat designs that are, frankly, boring.
:mmph: Rick
 
I had a call last week from a customer I framed a monoprint for a year ago. He called to tell me his frame is warped. I apologized and asked him to bring it back so I can see it, and fix it. It is a Larson Academie line, 573239. That is a thick moulding to warp. Size is about 32 x 40. I am worried because I use that line a lot.

He hasn't brought it back yet, but he will.

I hope this is not another sign of things to come.
 
It is pretty rare for a frame to warp after it is assembled, but it does happen. In the few cases I have seen, it was caused by the underlying wood cupping which resulted in the frame no longer staying flat against the wall.

I wouldn't be terribly concerned about the other orders you have done with the offending moulding unless you continue to get complaints. I have only seen this twice is 20 years.

With a twisted moulding, like we are all seeing so much of these days, the frame will not lay flat at the time you join it--if in fact you are able to get it joined at all.
 
Back
Top